Balancing Thread in multiplay

[Lamafarmer]

That was directed at ssack, not you.

Which maps did you make viriato?

[For Real WW2 feeling]

@adrian (or ssack)
first, thx thank you to publish my message each time, it will be even more readable

i type wrong : was about ele vs js 2 not JS1

error ? hummm... sight your speech and your ideas of map "balancing",
i m not sure than it's an error, but it's not grave

JS 2 VS ELE and ur propose with 3 js 2 maybe is close to be good
but the other option with 2 js 2 and su 100 is total lol!!

very incomprehensible speech ? you drink like a fish ? more precise pls,
you speak about 3 JS2 vs 1 KT ? and SU-100 vs what ?
But your solution 1 SU-100 vs 1 JagdPanther or 1 SU-100 vs 1 Nashorn
is surely good for hilarious MP map but not for serious map

...adn if kt is losed from one bomber ussr has a big advanatge of 4 excelent tanks!!! ...

with of "if" the situations are very different often ... and if 3 germans bombers shoot a SU-100 directly, HO! the poor SU-100 is destroyed, and if, and if...
i dont speak about the vast possible scenarios (it's the war...), but of comparaison duels.
After, yes in the battles, the speech of "comparison" is never the reality of fightings on map. By ex, a KT can meet 1 Sherman or 10....

and js 2 is very hard to be killed by panthers or tigers without kt armour germ is in deep shit

except (of face) than the Panther and Tigre1 they have a (destructors) effect on the JS2, but not the T34-85 on the KT

> for Eleph vs JS2, ok it's possible
(because JS2 have mobil turret but with a less armour
and Eleph without turret but big armour), but a medium unit for JS2 in more, it'll take at least, armoured of Elephant is very, all the same, thick

@Lamafarmer
yes i think too that there are large chances for than "adrian" is ssaack.
insults deleted by moderator
-Barbarossa-

[Lamafarmer]

I thought Langemarck's Belgian!? :p

[Gojira]

Gentlemen... Please calm down all of you. I started the thread with the intention of a positve discussion about balancing. And there are some very interesting points mentioned in here and we will surely not find the one and only answer for a perfectly balanced game. A balanced match depends on many, many factors like the terrain of the map (city-> advantage germany, free terrain-> advantage russia ....), the teams, the weather conditions, the colour of your underpants, the weigtht of your girlfriend and many more...^^
But maybe we can work out some fundamental rules, that can be given to new mappers as a kind of advice-> the whole community would have a profit from that.

@ Adrian: Many players regard you as the best multiplayer. Your successes in games are very impressive but the way you discuss here is insulting personally. Please try to find a more sensitive way of communication

Every mapper is a necessary mapper- you seem to have a lack of understanding this fact. The community is small and attacking someone either he makes "shit maps" or "is a Kleist Fan" is extremely contraproductive. Try to give helpfull advices, I´m sure the whole community had a profit of that. The chances your advices will be adopted wehn you call the other one a shitty mapper or he was "lol" are not very high...

Kind regards, Gojira

[For Real WW2 feeling]

lol, maybe, but it's sure, it's its friend, in game too,
or a immigrant romanian in belgium...

[For Real WW2 feeling]

@gojira

Many players regard you as the best multiplayer. Your successes in games are very impressive but the way you discuss here is insulting personally.

or a CHEAT ?
that made a long time that I wonder that ... and I am not only ... and considering its intelligence ...

[Gojira]

Well I had some probs to understand what you mean^^ Sorry. But i guess you doubt if Ssack is really the best one... I can´t answer the question ... I often made the experience, that even good players lost versus middle talented ones... this game like any other game too depends in a far respect on luck. You click a bit beside the tank, it turns , gets shot in the arse, game over.... So many aspects that decide weather u are a good player or not... But if U ask me: Ssack in your team isn´t a bad choice

[viriato]

That was directed at ssack, not you.

Which maps did you make viriato?

My excuse Lamafarmer.
So Adrian is Sack.He is a fast player but always fussy.
I hvent played much recently (lack of time).
I made some maps in the past for 6.6 and 6.7.The last one was a Königsburg 5v5.384 .I have to admit that at the very beginning I was really naive and made terribly unbalanced maps .I had no references whatsoever but some players at game gave me some good hints whereas others simply skolded me to death .Well is a matter of trial and error and comments.
I see there is a lot of arguing about german and russian units but not much about americans nor britsh.
The other problem I find is game performance,I explain; one big german unit needs 3 or 4 american or british units to counterpart AT LEAST in what I have been reading which means if you start multiplying on battle field the allies cover more ground and maybe have more "killing targets" till they reach "match target".Then there is the problem of lag which we all know.
I do not read to much of using Pershing or Commets vs Tigers instead of using a group or rally of medium tanks. 2commets or 2 pershing =1 tiger

[-Barbarossa-]

2commets or 2 pershing =1 tiger

Some scripter balance 1 Pershing vs 1 Tiger these days....and even that is not really balanced in my view. Its playable but....but close to the edge.
If I get u right...2 Pershings vs. 1 Tiger - that is unplayable.
Pershing has better gun-range,slightly better damage, more hitpoints, nearly same armour and is faster and more mobile. NO CHANCE!
2 Comets vs. 1 tiger is maybe possible but that depends on the rest of the tank-balance in the script.

[viriato]

2commets or 2 pershing =1 tiger

Some scripter balance 1 Pershing vs 1 Tiger these days....and even that is not really balanced in my view. Its playable but....but close to the edge.
If I get u right...2 Pershings vs. 1 Tiger - that is unplayable.
Pershing has better gun-range,slightly better damage, more hitpoints, nearly same armour and is faster and more mobile. NO CHANCE!
2 Comets vs. 1 tiger is maybe possible but that depends on the rest of the tank-balance in the script.

You are right I meant to say 1 pershing from a certain distance
And for Panzer 5 maybe 2 sherman easy?

[Langemarck]

@For Real Warfare WW2 feel, look in the mirror before you start saying such insults to others, this is a balancing thread not the jerry springer show. I can agree or disagree to what I want, it's called democracy.

[-Barbarossa-]

@all...especially shadock,ssack:

I wont tolerate anymore insults and flaming.
Stop this right now! And this is not an advice!

[Langemarck]

A question from me and dustin:
How do you auto-destroy artillary after a number of shells has been fired?

[Lamafarmer]

I tried this some time ago and this is the easy way (no resupplying):

for units of group XX Ammo for 1st weapon exactly 0%

set HP at most 0 percent for units of group XX

where you assign only (!) the artillery to group XX.
when you want to have it destroyed after resupplying, you have to use the cell stuff I think. dunno how that works though. there you use them to add the times it was reloaded or the ammo it used or something and when it reached a set number you can execute the command mentioned above I guess.

[viriato]

Langemarck balancing tips:
1. Set the exp of all infantry to 150
2. pak40=us3inch=zis3-> for uk use us3.00inch
3. always make sure that infantry is balanced -> for uk use the us MG
4. Tanks:
-Best is to make a combination of tanks ( in general you should have the same firepower, armour , speed and range for all nations ).
-Try to give an even quantity of tanks.
-Tanks should have at least 25-30exp and not to high.
-Try to avoid using tanks that you don't know very well.
-Don't use to many units at the same time, give tank hunters and normal tanks in seperate reinforcement

*EXAMPLES*
-Panther+ pz H/G = 2t34 mod44= 3comet or
(3panther+3pzH= 5t34mod44+t34mod43.=2comet+firefly+3cromwell).

- Jagdpanther+ Nashorn=2su100=2 jackson (45xp instead of 30)
(jagd+nash+2stug=2su100+2su75=2jackson+2hellcat).


-Konigtiger+tiger=2js2+su122=4Pershing
(konig+2panther+2pzH+2tiger=4t34mod44+2js2+isu122=4pershing+2comet+2cromwell).
+be carefull when you add bombers, don't give many when you work with kt or ele.

- For light tanks
i will give more info later, this is hard to balance.


6. Pioneers and snipers
Never give more than 3 pioneer, on small maps it's better to give only 1pioneer.

7. Officers
Always give enough officers and underofficers try to give feldwebel/sergeant in each truck of 10inf.

8. Zepps and terrain
Try to limit the objects at the battlefield to avoid blocking of units,
try to keep the size of each player's front not to big and not to small and make sure the terrain is fair at both sides (same seize of hills,obstacles,...)

9. Timers
Example:
1)infantry only 00.10
2)light tanks 03.00
3)Pak guns 05.00
4)medium tanks 10.00
5) tankghunters 15.00
6)heavy tanks 27.30
7) tank hunters 45.00
medium tanks 01.15



timers can be diffirent depending on the terrain, when there are no hills or no defencive positions you can use these, if there are 'camper' positions try you can add some time.

10. Try to make it clear to which position a player should move at the start of the game, you can do so by using a message or other indications.

All comment is welcome, more tips comming soon...

Good stuff .
My way around it is to start of with a scout section ,maybe one motrbike with officer a couple of trucks or 1sdk type with guns include somewhere some pioneers and one or 2 medium tanks and 2or 3 light ones.(I am using german as a reference).Its just to get the feel that you are on reconnaissance and then at about 4 0r five minutes later send a medium strength reinforcement maybe maximum one panzer.After 10 minutes or 15minutes you send the strong stuff including general and finally at about 20 to 30 minutes you send a tank destroyer section with extra support(ammo etc)
Sometimes for the sake of holding on to "hope" for the team that maybe losing or for a stalemate situation I add an extra medium reinforcment at about an hour and half of game and another at 2 and a half of game start.
This is meant for big maps .
For zeppelins it depends ...The more difficult to take the better the reward
.One piece of advise is to always position a zep near the gates area (the entering of reinf I mean) for both teams so you will have to fight till the very end