Balancing Thread in multiplay

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GeorgiSchukow
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Beitrag von GeorgiSchukow » 03.05.2007, 17:20

Well,the T34 of all series have been devils,a niughtmare for the most german tanks :lol:


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Beitrag von For Real WW2 feeling » 04.05.2007, 13:06

@Langemarck
>> For Real Warfare WW2 feel, look in the mirror before you start saying such insults to others, this is a balancing thread not the jerry springer show. I can agree or disagree to what I want, it's called democracy.
:shock: :P and in more… a liar... and he speaks about democracy, I night-mareing :roll:

the first insult come always of you and you friend Adrian (ssack), in this forum same in the games... everyone know an read that !
Me, i insult never the first, only if a person have insult me... re-read this topic... sufficient like proof :wink:

@all
>>2 IS II + Su-152 against a KT, or 3 IS II, or 2 IS II + 2 Su-100
that exemple and a lot others, mean that many combinations are possible.
but in any event, example of combinations seldom in perfectly identical application on the ground

@viriato
>>I came up with a little surprise today ..I tested a pz3 75mm and a pz4 skirts vs t34/56 ,56mm and the ruskie destroyed both of them in literally 2 shots .I found the little bastard very accurate too and sharper than the marks especially against the pz3
you say that T34-57 easily destroyed Pz III, it's that ?
if i good understand, it's normal T34-57 had an anti-tank gun...
But same the Pershing and V2 :lol: , it was a marginal unit during the WW2
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Beitrag von viriato » 06.05.2007, 08:24

Still nobody has answered my question about what to use if Pz3 50 mm or 75 mm vs am an gb units.
For Tiger if I o not want to use pershing what is the choice?
I tested some armour ...Now question for the veterans;Can i use 1 Tiger vs 1 Sherman 11A+1 Sherman IV+1 Sherman 1?
I tried some possibilities and this was one, front to front if with the condition that tiger eliminates the sh 1 First sh4 second and then sh11a last while the shermans shoot tiger at the same time ...the three more or less together match tiger...well thats what I tried but... any better advise?
Thanks

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Beitrag von For Real WW2 feeling » 07.05.2007, 15:01

viriato hat geschrieben:Still nobody has answered my question about what to use if Pz3 50 mm or 75 mm vs am an gb units.
For Tiger if I o not want to use pershing what is the choice?
I tested some armour ...Now question for the veterans;Can i use 1 Tiger vs 1 Sherman 11A+1 Sherman IV+1 Sherman 1?
I tried some possibilities and this was one, front to front if with the condition that tiger eliminates the sh 1 First sh4 second and then sh11a last while the shermans shoot tiger at the same time ...the three more or less together match tiger...well thats what I tried but... any better advise?
Thanks
i dont know if i good all understand your text... :wink:

And at the moment, i COMPARE ONLY with my RWM 6.6 table units
http://voila-01.site.voila.fr/fichiers/ ... eau_UK.zip,
(i dont see again if haved of big changes in 6.7 and not finish and with a fiew up-grade 6.7 units)
See my table and sheet "by G. (global) Class, Range shoot & Guns" or "by Global Class, Life & Weight"

1)
- Pz III (L ?) (50 mm ;Range Shoot : < 625 ; Life : 300 ; Weight : 21,5 T) VS
(GB) Crusader (A15 Mk.III) (6pdr/57mm ; Range Shoot : < 625 ; Life : 400 ; Weight : 20 T)
(USA) (nearest that I found for vs PzIII 50 mm)
(USA) Stuart M5A1 (37 mm ; Range Shoot : < 625 ; Life : 250 ; Weight : 15 T)
(USA) Lee M3A5 (37 mm ; Range Shoot : < 625 ; Life : 580 ; Weight : 29 T)

- Pz III (N ?) (75 mm ;Range Shoot : < 625 ; Life : 320 ; Weight : 23 T) VS
(GB) Valentine Mk XI (75 mm ; Range Shoot : < 625 ; Life : 500 ; Weight : 16 T ; (but slow infantery tank speed 24km/h max)
(USA) Hellcat M18 (76 mm ; Range Shoot : < 625 ; Life : 400 ; Weight : 17 T)

same the real war, the perfect balanced (unit vs unit) is impossible,
but if you choice a inferior or superior units vs ...(GB/USA or German),
choice too for compensate a litle unit for (but always not perfect balanced) a (+/-) equitable fighting.
Ex :
1 Pz III (50 mm) VS 2 Stuart M5A1 (less Life and less mm gun)
and
1 Pz III (75 mm) + 1 Panzer 35(t) (37 mm ; RS : < 625 ; L : 250 ; W : 10 T) VS 1 Hellcat M18
(more speed 80 km/h, but i dont remember if in RWM more speed too ?)

it's sure, it's not simple of creat PRO WW2 map ;)

2)
Tiger1 vs 3 Shermans
- i think, your choice of 2 first shermans is good + 1 Sherman Easy Eight
But only if Tiger turns itself on the side, 75/76 mm guns of Shermans dont effective on Tiger of face.
But with 3 shermans (in theory of this example) and knowing that the tanks is rather often turned over, that should go.

So, think too combination with sherman + AT (1 sherman IIA + 1 Jackson...)

and perhaps that other players will have other opinions…
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Beitrag von viriato » 07.05.2007, 16:06

Thanks for the tips
About the valentine dont you think it is a bit too slow?
I mean that by the time it reaches the fighting area ,pz 50mm may cause a lot of damage .How a
About tiger is vs 1 sherman 11A +sherman iv +sherman i.
Sherman I simply tips the balance for nearly having the same calibre but weak armour. If tiger starts hitting first sherman 11a first it needs 3 to 4 shots destroy it but sh 4 and sh 1 are banging at him ,so by the time tiger wants to eliminate these 2 he is nearly not operational.That is why its seems more balnced and intelligent if tiger begins eliminating sh1 first (1 shot) sh4 after(1 to 3 shots if I remember) and then concentrate on the sherman 11a .I think sherman 11a is about the same as sherman easy so no problem changing.
About the jacksons I know they are good at far distance but like pershing they were rare to find at battle.


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Beitrag von For Real WW2 feeling » 07.05.2007, 18:13

>> About the valentine dont you think it is a bit too slow?
yes, it's for that you must to make up its "handicap" bye other unit(s)
or change (by exampl) for 2 Pz III 75mm vs 2 crusader + 1 valentine.... etc... combinations
>> About the jacksons I know they are good at far distance but like pershing they were rare to find at battle
heuu, it's altogether different, (during WW2 > until mai 1945)
- Jacksons : production 1600 ex. of april 1944
- Pershing : production 200 ex. of janvier 1945 (on ground, and i dont know if 10 or 50 ex arrived at this period, but only 2 destroy until mai 1945...)
for Pershing yes, i think which was a marginal unit in WW2, but not the jacksons

And it's a problem if you want creat a "history map" in "juin 1944" (i dont no if Jacksons were already there ?) or only a "feeling history map" (the majority of MP RWM maps) with a fiew "freedom"

and yes sorry, Sherman 1 (M4) exist in RWM

For Tiger1 vs sherman, you have too the Sherman "Jumbo" but normaly about it :
"This conversion was carried out to provide to US Armored Force, an assault gun which can carry out the same functions as German StuG III/IV and other Sturmpanzers. Its mission was to reduce the enemy strengthened points under a heavy anti-tank fire (from where its shielding). With this intention, the gun of 75 mm was preserved, indeed a great swiftness, was not necessary to the use of high-explosive rounds used for this function and thus the gun of 76 mm (using armor piercing rounds) was superfluous"
i dont no if in RWM that is applied ? and sure only 254 ex. (production start juin 1944 )
>> I think sherman IIa is about the same as sherman easy so no problem changing
heuu... I did not check yet in the 6.7 but it is different in v 6.6
- Sherman Easy Eight : Range Shoot 680 ; Life 750 ; 76 mm gun
- Sherman M4 (1) : Range Shoot < (less) 625 ; Life 650 ; but yes normally same gun but not in parameters

or it's a error in my table... ;) (i precise, i speak always of v 6.6 at the moment)
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Beitrag von viriato » 07.05.2007, 19:33

Yes rwmfeel .
You see I am making a Normandy map but it could be summer 1944 or later and i am testing the units in a "testing ground "single player map i made. I do not want to get into complications in my cryteria so what i do is take the german tank I want and face it front to front at about 30 40 m with british or american units( russian seems to be agreed more or less and there are some tables been made by veterans) .I am not testing side attacks or shots with tactical maneuvers, that is to the skill of player and we could end up in a David and Goliath tactical theories etc etc.
.
About the hellcat versus pz3 75mm i found that pz could wipe it out in one shot at least in 6.7 .It has a very weak armour whereas pz could stand the punishment for at least 3 shots...maybe use sherman 1 instead it has a better armour

About the valentine: Maybe a good idea to balance the speed limit is to permit it about 30 seconds earlier to enter the battlefield than its matching opponent .That is is in script work
You know "send inicial reinf for Gb (valentine etc) GER ( 1 truck)bla bla i in 1 minute"
And after"send initial reinf for Gb (1 truck) GER (Pz 3 blabla) bla bla in
1 minute 30 seconds "
So you have more or less time for valentine to be in an approximate zone where ther is "action"and meet pz3
Well anyway thanks for the comments

adrian
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Beitrag von adrian » 10.05.2007, 15:50

viriato hat geschrieben:Thanks for the tips
About the valentine dont you think it is a bit too slow?
I mean that by the time it reaches the fighting area ,pz 50mm may cause a lot of damage .How a
About tiger is vs 1 sherman 11A +sherman iv +sherman i.
Sherman I simply tips the balance for nearly having the same calibre but weak armour. If tiger starts hitting first sherman 11a first it needs 3 to 4 shots destroy it but sh 4 and sh 1 are banging at him ,so by the time tiger wants to eliminate these 2 he is nearly not operational.That is why its seems more balnced and intelligent if tiger begins eliminating sh1 first (1 shot) sh4 after(1 to 3 shots if I remember) and then concentrate on the sherman 11a .I think sherman 11a is about the same as sherman easy so no problem changing.
About the jacksons I know they are good at far distance but like pershing they were rare to find at battle.
hey viriato first of all u didnt write corect the sherman and u didint think that in game are and pz 4 and others tanks !and test again and u will see that tiger kill from 2 shots any kind of sherman :arrow: :xxx3 and i dont say u that tiger has exper crew most of the times
PS.sherman 1 cant damage tiger :lol:

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Beitrag von viriato » 10.05.2007, 17:22

Ok .So whats your choice for a tiger without using pershing or jacksons?

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Beitrag von adrian » 11.05.2007, 09:17

viriato hat geschrieben:Ok .So whats your choice for a tiger without using pershing or jacksons?
there are so many sherm combination:for ex:2 sherman M4A3E8 +1 jumbo or 1 M4A1+1M4A2+M4A3E8 and lit continuu as i told u go and shoot in tiger with them and if u dont belive me in test units!

Lamafarmer

Beitrag von Lamafarmer » 11.05.2007, 12:17

viriato hat geschrieben:Ok .So whats your choice for a tiger without using pershing or jacksons?
Depends on your map really and the reenforcements that are already on the map and possibly still alive.

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Beitrag von For Real WW2 feeling » 11.05.2007, 12:43

yes, about Tiger vs Shermans, I had to forget to say that ;)
Only if Tiger turns itself on the side, 75/76 mm guns of Shermans dont effective on Tiger of face.
But with 3 shermans (in theory of this examples) and knowing that the tanks is rather often turned over, that should go.

but it's of the theory, rarely the reinforcements envisaged are found under the conditions envisaged.
But it's necessary well to create an equitable starting base
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Beitrag von adrian » 11.05.2007, 17:24

For Real Warfare WW2 feel hat geschrieben:yes, about Tiger vs Shermans, I had to forget to say that ;)
Only if Tiger turns itself on the side, 75/76 mm guns of Shermans dont effective on Tiger of face.
But with 3 shermans (in theory of this examples) and knowing that the tanks is rather often turned over, that should go.

but it's of the theory, rarely the reinforcements envisaged are found under the conditions envisaged.
But it's necessary well to create an equitable starting base
in some case i saw in my games that 50 mm kicked my tigert from a small angle that 75 cant do it! maybe it is a bug not sure :roll:

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Beitrag von viriato » 17.05.2007, 18:19

adrian hat geschrieben:
viriato hat geschrieben:Ok .So whats your choice for a tiger without using pershing or jacksons?
there are so many sherm combination:for ex:2 sherman M4A3E8 +1 jumbo or 1 M4A1+1M4A2+M4A3E8 and lit continuu as i told u go and shoot in tiger with them and if u dont belive me in test units!
Thanks adrian .I will try these combinations :D

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Beitrag von viriato » 07.06.2007, 11:17

i see many people using the big cats in games .what about smaller units?
any idea what to use for:
PZ pfw 35
PZ pfw 38
PZ E 37mm
PZ II F 20mm
PZ III F 37mm
PZIII L 50mm
Stug III B 75mm
Stug III G 75mm
Pz jg marder 76mm.
i would be much obliged for the help :D


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